Remember this feature from the NY Times? The article is about a newlywed couple in NYC who wanted help decorating their first apartment.
I always love getting some insight into how other decorators work (and how much they charge! $10,000 for this room, in case you’re wondering.***And to clarify, the designer volunteered her work for the sake of the article and the press. It’s written in the features in the margin that she would have charged $10k for the room.)
Here’s the before:
and the after again:
Another angle:
Overall, I like the changes to the space, though my two favorite elements were pieces the couple already owned – the Empire dining chairs and the Hunt Slonem butterfly painting.
I did love the idea of vinyl stripes in the dining nook! Such a clever idea for renters with a no-painting policy.
The decorator spent $100 on the brown vinyl stripes, which were purchased through Walls Need Love. If you’re after the same look, you might consider contact paper, or at the very least, shopping around on etsy for the vinyl.
What do you think? Worth $5k+ spent on new furnishings? What about the additional $10k in decorator’s fees?
My thoughts on pricing for a decorator (just the fees – not the purchasing budget) have changed a lot over the past few years. I’d love to hear your thoughts – especially you fellow decorators. Is $10k for a NYC living/dining room too much, not enough or just right?
hm…my thoughts have changed on decorators charges a lot lately too, when I started I charged a low hourly rate, passed on my trade discount and didn't charge for all the hours I worked as many of my clients would open up our agreement by stating something similar to "I need help and advice but I don't really want to pay much for it…" I also had no real concept of exactly how much work I would end up doing and it resulted in me working 24/7 and making no money, resenting my clients and the work I was doing and generally really not enjoying it. I've since learnt that my skills and contribution are really valuable, my time is important and should be paid for and equally my free time and creating balance in my life so that I could enjoy my work and my clients again was vital. Long comment to say that I believe if people want to use a service such as interior decorators they need to understand that it isn't about moving about furniture and adding a couple of pillows, it's actually much more than that and if people understood the volume of work involved they'd probably be prepared to pay for it.
I do think there is a certain respect for the design if the charge is correct….ie: it is a service by a skilled professional who has spent time at school and a great deal of time after staying current,attending professional seminars etc. after learning the skills. There of course are office overheads and costs as well. Your designer is usually not just someone with a 'flair'…. I have always found the best clients were those that I did not deep discount to….
I think that 10k in designer fees is complete madness for a space so small, with such minor changes. The wall color looks the same, the carpet is the same, the curtains are the same, the major furniture is all the same. I appreciate the difference, but surely changing the placement of the furniture and choosing a few lamps and pillows is not that onerous of a task for someone who does this day-in-day-out.
Why is it that a decorator's fee's are questioned, and a lawyer or doctor's fee is never charged? I think if you want a change, hiring a professional for their expertise is "value" and one should never put a value or price tag on that. My son was in the hospital a few years back and for the mere 10 day stay it was nearly 6 figures? Now how much would I like to pay a decorator that amount, but to have my son well, priceless.
pve
I used to believe that some services were overcharged, but then my mother made a point: if you cant take care of your garden, you hire someone to do it for you and you pay the price they ask, otherwise, do it yourself.
Of course market research is wise before taking such decisions, for such amounts of money, and eventually leads to more fair fees-for the client AND the professionals.
Wow… $10,000 is waaay too much. And the space didn't even change THAT drastically. Like, they kept the same carpet, floor etc.
I would never hire a decorator, I want to do it all myself when I get my first house. But that's just me!
xx
Thanks for all the feedback. I think it's interesting to read all of this.
I thought I would mention that I added a line in the post to clarify one of the points here. The designer, who I think is on the ups and is pretty well known, volunteered her services in exchange for the press written in this article. She says though that she would have charged $10,000 for the room.
keep on discussing! I'd love to hear more.
As a daughter of a hairstylist and an artist I do believe in paying people for their skills, if it were easy everyone would do it. I personally think 10k was alot for that space but I'm not familiar with New York rates. I disagree that lawyers and doctor's rates aren't questioned they absolutely are but most often people aren't given a choice.
The change in this room doesn't in my opinion equate to 10k especially when a lot of the shopping(time) was already done, but if the owners are happy then…
I wouldn't pay $10,000 for that, but I would pay $15,000 for what Nate Berkus did for the 300 square foot studio apartment featured in Oprah.
I would love to hire a decorator! $10,000 for this space, and these changes does seem high. However, I live in St. Paul vs New York City, so I'm sure I don't know the market. Beautiful room, and I love your blog!
I have read all these comments; they are all good.
I have to agree with those commentors with pating for talent.
Of course getting a quote on your livingroom wall colors is not the same as calling a plummer to fix a burst pipe. There are set occurances that people just know exist and I think the thought of a designer is one of extravagance for some and for others it is needed and accepted as a neccesity.
As for the NYC apt; it is well put together and was integrated into a good looking space. As for the price tag? I am not sure the going rate, it does seem pricy for what was done, but there may have been numerous design things the article did not touch on.
Just my 2 cents worth.
L.
Wow, loved reading that article and the comments so far…it is interesting to see how people view our services.
I'm a licensed interior designer with LEED accreditation and I think it's ridiculous! My clients can usually expect to pay about 20-25% of their total budget on services. For instance, a 5k room would usually be about 6-6.5k with my services added.
It seems high to me but if the clients are happy and willing to pay it, fair enough. If the majority of clients feel the price is too high they wouldn't pay it and the designer would have to review their pricing structures
ZoeB
Would have to agree that 10K seems WAY over the top. I would consider a % of the purchaces made, especially if the designer was passing along discounts. I can't imagine what the hourly rate was for a space that size- – how could that POSSIBLY have taken more than 2-3 days to put together? even at three days that is over $400 an hour– my LAWYER get's that rate!
I think when you hire a decorator, the size of the fee has to do with confidence that the end product will be perfect and the process will be smooth. I would always pay more if I 100% knew those things would happen. Plus, we don't know about the process of getting to that gorgeous room…..did the clients change their minds a million times, was there a trip to the Paris flea market. There are lots of variables to a design charge. I think that if the clients are happy with what they paid and with the end result, they paid a fair price.
What an interesting topic, so much behind the scenes work goes into creating a great space. I think if you want decorating advice but don't want to pay alot you should buy a magazine!!!!
I think professionals deserve to be paid, and people will pay if they can afford the service.
I am not in a position to pay anywhere near $10,000 and we have a pretty comfortable life. IMO unless the decorator is a friend and giving you a big discount or free advice, most "normal" people can't afford the luxury of a decorator or interior designer. I guess I'm lucky that I have pretty good taste and access to blogs;)
Allison
First let me say I like the contact paper idea. I think I read in the comments that why are decorators fees questioned? I personally question everyone fees, and this was without question an over-charge.
I love this topic–great post.
I personally think this couple might have gotten ripped off, but on the other hand, I think alot of people take advantage of designers. I'm still struggling with what/how to charge, what to include as part of my hourly rate(lots of questions/emails from the clients, etc.) All of these things take time and it's hard to know exactly how to bill. Can't wait to read more of the feedback you get.
It is a constant issue, I like what Pve said. My husband never is questioned for his hourly rate, he works in technology, but enter the creative realm and for some reason the perception on value completely changes. Janell
Great question! I have started doing design work again after being home w/ my 3 girls. I have found it difficult for clients to commit to my services. I have started off helping friends and neighbors, but feel bad charging them! I should'nt at all!! I live in the Midwest and people are afraid when I say I charge hourly. I only charge $30/hour. I give them ideas, buy items if they request it, select fabric and furniture. Some clients then finish the room on their own time. My clients make a good living but would not pay thousands of dollars for design services!
I am not familiar with decorator rates… but 10k seems insane…. if I'm paying that kinda cash… I better have several giant homes for them to decorate….
I think I need to read the article again because I thought it said the designer offered her services for free (probably because the article was being written.) It didn't portray her in a good light either and I don't think that most designers operate that way.
As for fees, agree with what the first commenter said. I can usually tell in the first phone coversation (after years of learning the hard way) whether the potential client values what I do and therefore is willing to pay my hourly rate during the project.
I am an Interior Designer from Texas and $10,000 seems insane for the amount of work done. I think a high price for this room would only be acceptable if the clients were indecisive, needed a lot of choices and wasted design resources.
I think you must know your market and in addition likely need the portfolio and references to support these rates for a small space.
That said, I think we must assume in this senario, clients with this sort of disposable income did their homework and felt their CHOSEN designer's fees were well worth the expense of having their design vision enhanced and executed!
I personally think designers should charge 20-30% of the project total, be confident they are working with clients that are a good fit and projects that match their abilities. If this is being done, then your fees should not be an issue.
What doesn't add up to me is that $5k was spent on new furnishings, yet $10k was spent on decorators fees. It just seems a bit out of proportion. If you're going to spend $15k, wouldn't you rather spend a large portion of that on product and a smaller portion on service. I'm an interior designer and not trying to de-value what us designers do, but I think that maybe the design fees were exorbitantly high. I'm just not seeing $10k results. Yes, it looks nice, but the furniture was rearranged and a few pieces added. I don't see any walls being moved, major floorplan changes, etc. And vinyl decals? For $15k spent overall, I'd be talking to the landlord and figuring out a way to get paint on the walls. Vinyl decals are great for some applications (kids rooms, dorm rooms), but not designs where you spend $15k. Just my thoughts.
The debate that will go on forever… I am not familiar with designer fees in NYC but I do think that as an interior designer, I deserve to be paid my worth. Since it is a career that most people think they can do on their own, it is hard to prove to people your worth. I went to school for 4 years and got my bachelors in design, studied for over a year before taking my NCIDQ exam, became a licensed interior designer, and I take continuing education classes every year to stay in the know about everything from ADA to health, safety, and welfare requirements. I put a lot of effort into my career and people need to realize that when I tell them my hourly fee. I am sure all the other ladies out there can agree!
I am going to agree with most people and say the $10,000 charged for this room is a bit much. I've always assumed that you pay a decorator a certain percentage of your overall budget (20% maybe?), and it's up to the decorator whether he/she wants to take my $5,000 budget job.
I work in Upstate NY as an educational consultant, have a Master's degree and because I am doing my work to help families, my rates are usually negotiable. At very least my hours are. I think it's completely reasonable for a client of any type to say "Ok, you charge $100/hour. I can only afford 10 hours. Can we do this job in that amount of time?" As a consultant, which is basically what a designer is, I have to be honest with them and myself about the time necessary.
I've worked with interior designers in San Fran, NYC, Charlotte and now in Westchester. Each time the fee structure was different – depending upon the market rate, the designers experience and the agreement we made. In each case, I felt I got a value -added. So, I guess my answer is….it depends. However, I definitely believe I have been better served in each of my homes by working with a professional — and I've learned a lot along the way.
I have to say that LGN is my absolute favorite design blog and this GV living room featured in the Times a few months ago is one of my favorites! I am obsessed with the Hunt Slonem, myself. However, as someone who lives in Manhattan, I can understand the $10,000 fee. That doesn't mean I think it is acceptable (they live in a very small one bedroom and I would think that is insane for the entire apartment) but this is New York City. And what I remember from the article, this designer/decorator is very high profile which is to say, People Know Her and Her Buisness. Your name and your social network and your clientele base is everything here and yes even if you work in interiors, if you are a dentist, a baker, a dog walker. Also, it takes A LOT of time in NYC to brand yourself, build your clientele list and so on. I bet when she first started out in NYC as a decorator, no matter how many years she was doing this before she moved to the city, she had a major reality check and had to start all over again. Also, they live in one of the most coveted and expensive neighborhoods (not to mention one of the most expensive blocks) in Manhattan. If that apartment was situated in Inwood (northern tip of the Manhattan Island think Bronx but a lot more north) one, I doubt the high profile decorator would go there to service the living room and two it would have not been 10k. That's just how it is here. Sorry for the bluntness, but I like to keep it real. Love the blog!! Hope you show some more projects and rooms soon!
I think $10k is way out of proportion for what was actually done in this room. The majority of pieces were already in place and it seems this was just a floor plan change. I believe this is why more people do not use designers. It is secretive and subjective. You could spend hours working up a plan only for me to hate it. Then what? It is a question that has no answer.
Oh I struggle with this everyday. It's so hard to figure out your pricing.
I agree with everyone that people tend to get weird with money when it comes to something creative, but we have no problem paying plumbers,electricians, etc to fix things in our house.
I think that 10k is pretty high for that type of room. But from what I recall in reading the article I think it was done by a pretty well know designer. That being said for a high-profile designer that seems to be a good price.
I remember reading in Domino magazine when they interviewed a bunch of designers that they mostly charged 30k per room and then a mark up on to the trade products in the 30% range. In that case 10K does seem like a bargain.
I find myself working an insane amount of hours and always feeling guilty to hand in the invoice. I charge a lower hourly fee than most decorators, but I actually bill the majority of my hours.
Many decorators that charge $50-$75 an hour quote clients with 10-15 hours to complete a room from start to finish. That is a complete lie. Most of my installs take at least 6 hours! So my hours are always way higher than that.
I think if you are toying with switching your rates due to the NY client base you need to figure out if you want to stay somewhat budget.
I know many decorators that charge around $100-$125 an hour and just do the design plan for about 10 hrs and leave the rest up to the client. So if they want the decorators help during the rest of job the decorator just charges a mark-up on products and services that they are there to over see.
If you live in NYC, you are well accustomed to things costing twice as much as a similar service would cost most places in America. (There are other cities where this is also true). Designers, especially self-employed designers, are running a business, and so you must base your fees on what your time is worth to yourself. If prospective clients are unwilling to pay, there is probably someone out there they can hire for less. Personally, I think an hourly rate is the most fair to the client and designer. Perhaps the client needs to state there is only a certain number of hours they can afford. And like lawyers, the designer needs to include hours spent answering emails and phone calls to the client, since those can be time-consuming endeavors. As was mentioned by other commenters, the designer's name and reputation also plays into how much people will be willing to pay for a designer's reputation. In every type of career, there will always be certain people who can command a higher price for services, and there is nothing wrong with that. We live in a world where there are always a thousand choices of products and services to purchase, and we select based on our perceived value/price ratio.
I am so curious on this too! I am just starting my business and know I am worth a lot more than I charge my clients, but am so uncomfortable putting a price on something that I love to do! So far it hasn't been an issue because I mostly have been trying to build my portfolio, but I know I can't run a proper business and continue to ignore my finances! I have tried talking to other decorators to get an idea of their fee structure, but that is understandably kind of uncomfortable for most people… Thanks for starting this discussion!
I dont think the issue is how much work was done for what was charged … as long as you know what you are paying from the beginning well then you have agreed to it … if they wanted a cheaper designer I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they would have found one.
Just want to say I love your blog- read it everyday!
But I'm confused- i just read the article- It does not say that the decorator charged $10,000 in fees- it states she did it for free- and that the total room cost $4,000 (for new furnishings) Just thought I should point this out!
In the interest of full disclosure, I know nothing about designer rates.
I do agree that a designer should be paid appropriately and fairly for their time, education, and talent. I think people too often expect a "deal" for a service. Photographers, hair-stylists, etc. I think face similar challenges. People expect a favor just because they know you, or know someone how knows you, or….
I also think there is a big (BIG) difference between someone who went to design school and someone who thinks they have a knack for decorating. Its like the everyone-with-a-DSLR-is-a-photographer phenomenon. Not everyone has any business charging 10k.
From a consumer perspective, I sort of feel like the designer fees should not exceed the purchasing budget. I think I would feel better about that room if the designer earned 5k, equal to the purchasing budget, rather than 10.
opps, 2 year old deleted my comment :)
you get what you pay for. the room is styled beautifully. contrary to some of the previous comments, i appreciate that the designer was able to incorporate some of the clients existing furniture, accessories, and materials. Integrating personal items can always be a challenge, but i feel this room was designed gracefully and still displays the clients personality.
I believe a worker is worth their wages – I have to, since my salary is all fundraised! But honestly, I think $10K is a bit high for this space. Sure, there are some thoughtful changes and furniture purchases, but the price seems a bit steep. Maybe not for NYC, but definitely for my humble midwestern roots :-)
I'm also trying to figure out where the $10,000 fee came from. The article said nothing about it.
That being said, I would say a $10,000 fee might be reasonable if the clients were difficult to work with, changed their minds a lot, etc… We restructure our architectural fees if we realize that a client is changing their minds too often (always an uncomfortable conversation). If you don't you can't make any money. We're currently dealing with a client who agreed to an hourly fee structure, and then balked when we gave him the bill. "You can't possibly have spent this much time on the project, yet." Well, we have. Just because he thinks it's impossible, or that our time is less valuable than his, doesn't make it so, it just means he has no idea how much time and effort Design Professionals put into their work.
Reading the article, it says that she offered her services for free so the $10,000 mark seems a bit shocking!
I can't believe on a design blog of all places people are debated the impact of furniture placement and what adding/editing a few key pieces can make. We all know it isn't simple, especially when you see the before and after photos and what a huge difference can actually be made by making those "simple" changes. If you want to make a big impact without spending a lot of additional money on new pieces, I think you should expect to pay a professional who can pull it off for you with those limitations. I am sure that they could have paid an inferior designer less money and had inferior results. In my opinion they got what they paid for, a big impact with minimal changes.
Wow, $10,000 for this space seems outrageous, especially when it exceeds the money spent on furnishings! I think everyone deserves a beautiful space, and depending on the time spent, the designer's background, etc. each designer should be priced at a rate they are comfortable with. Each market, each client, and each designer is very different.
Im not a decorator but it seems common sense to me….Do not feel guilty as a decorator charging for the complete work/hours you put in to a design. Its like going to a nice restaurant and then not having money to pay for it all or being surprised with the bill even when the prices are on the menu. As long as you the design are up front with how you bill then thats all that matters. The features room displays some expensive items and the owners seem to have expensive taste…did they end up liking the room and care that they paid 10k?
I think the article as posted online is a little confusing–the designer waived her 10k fee and her estimate of what the fee would have been is only explained on the pop-up "What it Cost." That said, it does sound as though she (or her assistants) did a fair amount of work, scouring e-bay and estate sales for budget-friendly pieces; the couple also likely wouldn't have known of or been able to purchase the trade-only Avery Boardman sofa which sounds like a great find for them. I think the designer is likely basing her fee on what she would have charged a normal client based on room size and scope of project; I'm guessing that typically her clients have much larger budgets, so the 10k for her services would be a much smaller percentage of the total.
Let's face it, at the end of the day, a designer's services are worth whatever people will pay for them. Living in NYC, I know people who hire designers like the one featured in the article. Some people are paying up for a "name," while others are willing to take a chance on a fledgling designer who's trying to build her portfolio and thus expect to pay less.
LOVE the discussion going on here. It's fascinating. Here's my two cents:
I definitely like the "after", but it strikes me as more about tweaking than a true overhaul. Honestly, I'm not sure where the $10k in fees went (though the ~$5k in new stuff seems about right). It looks like much of this could have been done in an afternoon worth of rearranging and then maybe another day or two's worth of sourcing for a few new items. In Houston at least, that doesn't add up to $10k.
I'd like to add though that as an attorney I am CONSTANTLY dealing with billing, fees, etc. – especially in this economy. It's not just "creative types" who get their fees questioned/bargained down!
I know nothing about this at all- but someone commented that the designer is a very high profile one. Perhaps the people were willing to pay her twice as much as they did for the furnishings for the ability to name drop their designer. Good for the designer to get to that point where people are willing to use her just to drop her name- and she can charge so much for it. Now…when I have that much disposable income….I don't know if i'd pay any amount to name drop.
I am a professional designer, with a masters in architecture, and have been working for over 6 years. My hourly rate for corporate clients is 105$ per hour. This space looks as if it took over 10 hours to design. ( its certainly not a dramatic overhaul like a kitchen) However, most people who aren't designers for a living do not understand procuring furniture, finishes, hiring trades and managing trades all takes time. Not to mention the time it takes to revise and hold hands with clients. Our profession is dramatically underpaid, this post is great because it shows how much we are undervalued. How much do you pay your dentist per hour ( without insurance ) i can assure you its 4-5X that amount, and the intensity of school is pretty similar.
I know nothing about designer rates. But I would definitely pay a lot of money for a room I was in love with. I think it's worth it if the client's end up loving the room. I think it depends on your income. Based on what my husband and I make now, we couldn't afford the $10,000 price tag. But if we were making $200,000+ then that would be another story.
PS.-I just wanted to say that I own a dresser identical to the one under the big white circle mirror. It was my first dresser! I'm astonished that I own something so unique that's in a professionally decorated room!